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Gurus, Sages and Higher Beings

American Guru Tradition, Non-Guru - Adyashanti

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Kirtanman	Posted - Sep 11 2006 : 11:51:44 AM http://www.adyashanti.org If you run into Adyashanti, and his wife Annie, in the grocery store (as a good friend of mine did, recently - yes, it was Whole Foods ... ) - you're much more likely to have the impression of somebody's amiable next door neighbor, rather than having the impression of a spiritual teacher who is rapidly becoming known throughout the country, and throughout the world. Most well-known Western "gurus" either follow an Eastern path, primarily - or develop their own system and philosophy (example: Gurdjieff). In my experience, Adyashanti is unique - and a rare jewel among spiritual teachers, in that you don't have to be interested in yoga, eastern thought, God, or any specific flavor of God, to benefit from Adya and his teachings - you only have to be interested in reality. And mean it. Adyashanti doesn't initiate disciples, though he has many students who refer to him as their primary spiritual teacher. He grew up in a regular home in the San Francisco Bay Area, and spent fifteen years practicing Zen Buddhism, at which time (as he describes it), "Oops -- I awakened out of Zen!" If you've never been exposed to Adyashanti, I highly suggest visiting his site - specifically the Teachings section, and specifically the video clips and/or audio -- you can get a "feel" for him from those clips. http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=teachings I also highly recommend his book "Emptiness Dancing", as a solid augmentation to any spiritual information you study or have studied. http://www.adyashanti.org - I couldn't get the "Bookstore" link from his site to paste correctly -- so please just visit the main link, and then click on Bookstore. And I personally find great value not only in his teachings, but in the energy of his presence (experienced profoundly as recently as last Wednesday evening). And finally, if you're interested in an example (other than Yogani ... ) who is from the West, and who has "made it" -- and still primarily lives a "regular life" (drives a Toyota, goes to the grocery store, goes to the emergency room when he drops a 10lb. steel weight on his finger, etc.) ... I highly recommend Adya as a literally shining example! Peace & Namaste, Kirtanman
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
woosa	Posted - Sep 12 2011 : 07:11:51 AM Thanks for pointing out the downloads Wow, it is in depth 90 mins for track 1, insane! Thats a lot of energy talk. Anyway, I don't believe Adyashanti is enlightened for the reason being: he doesn't have a beard. I don't want to start a debate, I just thought I would point that out.
Jim and His Karma	Posted - Sep 11 2011 : 10:27:35 PM quote: Originally posted by chsmithe quote: Originally posted by Jim and His Karma every time I let go an iota more, I become much more awash in energy, and I'm always banging right up against the amount I can maximally handle.....Anyway, i'd like to hear his take on i as far as energy is concerned, click here...http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharm...ibrary_audio and listen to the 3 free downloads entitled "The Territory of Freedom". He goes pretty in depth into the energy of awakening. chsmithe, perfect, thanks. Wonderfully expressed, and so refreshing and helpful to get a non-yoga perspective (this isn't stuff the Zen guys like to talk about). "A dragon by the tail...who doesn't particular care how convenient its effects are within our lives." Ha! I can't imagine an AYP practitioner not being extremely glad to hear this. Thanks again.
stevenbhow	Posted - Sep 08 2011 : 05:36:57 AM Thanks for the downloads Chsmithe! Great stuff!
chsmithe	Posted - Jul 26 2011 : 3:43:34 PM quote: Originally posted by Jim and His Karma Kirtanman, thanks for another ice cream sundae of a post. If we're not going to all just go "om" 24/7, we may as well sprinkle liberally with digressions, witty knots, and emoticons, no? I always get a kick from your postings! Question: Adya is a rare non-dualist who admits to energy being an issue (e.g. he says he's screwed up some people via something akin to shaktipat, and won't give energy now even if people "beg"). I find that interesting. Has he written or spoken on the issue of energy (I don't mean just shakti) anywhere that can be seen or downloaded? it's of acute interest to me, as every time I let go an iota more, I become much more awash in energy, and I'm always banging right up against the amount I can maximally handle. And not being interested in magic tricks and personal power, it's nothing but hindrance to me. But I do recognize that opening to What Is involves opening to flavors and intensities of energy we usually insulate ourselves against. Anyway, i'd like to hear his take on it, because, again, it's so unusual to hear about a non-dualist talking about this (I think many advaitans open their minds but not their hearts and bodies - which is why they tend to be a bit cranky and arrogant - and stop there. But I'm digressing). as far as energy is concerned, click here...http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharm...ibrary_audio and listen to the 3 free downloads entitled "The Territory of Freedom". He goes pretty in depth into the energy of awakening.
bewell	Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 8:07:32 PM quote: Originally posted by stevenbhow My main meditation, when I practice regularly is a guided Kundalini meditation by Kelly Howell. I'm fairly lucky that I go to the Bliss state rapidly whenever I meditate. Hi Stevenbhow Thanks for your detailed reply. It helps me feel like I know where you are coming from. Bewell
stevenbhow	Posted - Mar 03 2011 : 9:35:48 PM Hi bewell, currently I'm not really doing too much practice other than reading. I have four month old son, so I've been pretty busy with him and work. I have practiced AYP meditation, but I've been sort of on and off. I'm kind of lazy when it comes to that. My main meditation, when I practice regularly is a guided Kundalini meditation by Kelly Howell. I'm fairly lucky that I go to the Bliss state rapidly whenever I meditate. I think Adya is really good for self-inquiry and AYP is excellent for overall yogic techniques and knowledge. Of course, this just my opinion. I'm relatively new to spiritual practices. (about 4 years now) After reading Adya's books and listen to his satsang I feel like I catch myself a lot sooner when I start to get agitated, judgmental, or angry.
bewell	Posted - Mar 03 2011 : 09:41:02 AM quote: Originally posted by stevenbhow I just finished "The End of Your World". I really liked Adya's teachings ... Stevenbhow I'm curious, how do Adya's teachings influence your relationship to doing AYP? Do you currently do any AYP? I saw reading your past posts that you had a question about agitation and anger following meditation. Was that AYP meditation? If not what form? Be
stevenbhow	Posted - Mar 03 2011 : 07:58:05 AM I just finished "The End of Your World". I really liked Adya's teachings about fierce grace. As the ego is pushed aside I think it really does feel a lot like physical death, or at least maybe the ego's mental construct of what death is. I feel like for me it is a very very slow death, though
Kirtanman	Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 6:50:48 PM Hi All, Having spent a lot of time over the last several years with both Adyashanti's teachings and AYP, I've found both beneficial (though I haven't spent much time with Adya's material in the last couple of years; I still recommend him highly, though). Adyashanti offers good pointers, and gives a very solid, real-world articulation of what enlightenment is like. AYP offers the means for us to know enlightenment and liberation in our own experience. The blend of the two can be consummately powerful, I've found. Wholeheartedly, Kirtanman
bewell	Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 5:56:53 PM Christi I see what you mean. I do see differences between AYP and Zazen, but when both are put into practice, both lead to stillness/silence. Out of silence, then the two can be seen as coming together for the kind of "cross-fertilization" Yogani speaks of. Bewell
Christi	Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 5:46:18 PM Hi Bewell, Even Zazen meditation practice is an action, which leads to a desired outcome, and it is practiced in order to reach that outcome. "Leaving all objects to their natural function" is a doing, which leads to an undoing. So in reality (and in practice) Zazen (a.k.a True meditation), is not that dissimilar from Deep Meditation. The confusion arises because at the point of Self-realization, there has to be the awareness that everything is already inherently perfect, and so there is no necessity to alter, or change anything in order to rest in this inherent perfection, which is in itself a condition of bliss. Adyashanti is a Self-realization teacher... at least he is when he is giving his satsangs. So he is aiming his teachings at people who are at a particular stage of the path. He refers to these people as "serious students"; over here we would call them "ripe". So he is teaching to the few rather than the many. In AYP, Yogani handles this dilema by saying that you need to have a certain amount of inner silence in place before you can begin Self-inquiry practice. Adya on the other hand, lets people discover this by themselves, or come on a retreat and learn to develop inner silence through Zazen. And yes, Deep Meditation, like Zazen, reveal that our natural (as opposed to normal) condition is one of silence and stillness. And also one of beauty and love. Any real meditation practice will reveal this, so don't be confused by Adyashanti.
bewell	Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 4:57:59 PM quote: Originally posted by Christi Hi Bewell, Adyashanti teaches two practices: a form of structured self-inquiry (different to his satsangs), and a meditation practice called zazen (which he calls True meditation). ....when he bagan to realize that many people simply weren't "getting it" he started teaching meditation and self-inquiry as well. Christi Thanks. I had not heard or read about his meditation and self-inquiry methods before, but I was able to find an introduction to "True Meditation" here: http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php...writingid=12 I see how True Meditation is a path to the sort of enlightenment he describes. True Meditation is quite different from AYP practices. In True Meditation "all objects are left to their natural functioning." By contrast in AYP, we use mantra, pranayama, bandas and mudras in order to refine our understanding of cause and effect. As an effect of studying Adya's teachings, today when I did my AYP sit, I kept hearing Adya's criticisms in the background. The effect was that it drew me out of deep inner experience, and drew me into more ordinary consciousness. It made me feel self-conscious about doing actions to produce effects. It made me enjoy AYP less. I can easily see how his influence leads away from AYP and toward privileging natural awareness. What AYP and True Meditation seem to have in common is that, to borrow Adya's words, "silence and stillness are revealed as our natural condition." That's what I'm seeing. You? Bewell
Christi	Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 4:02:43 PM Hi Bewell, Adyashanti teaches two practices: a form of structured self-inquiry (different to his satsangs), and a meditation practice called zazen (which he calls True meditation). In his satsangs he often teaches pure advaita. I heard that he initially started giving shaktipat, which went horribly wrong (by his own admission), and then he started teaching only pure advaita. Then later, when he bagan to realize that many people simply weren't "getting it" he started teaching meditation and self-inquiry as well. Despite this, he seems to have left his satsangs in "pure advaita" mode, so if you listen to him speak you wouldn't guess that he was actually a meditation teacher and retreat leader (and practiced for many years before that). Christi
bewell	Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 05:04:45 AM quote: Originally posted by Kirtanman You'll notice his "emphatic voice" never lasts more than a few seconds, and is always followed by laughter, or a gentle smile or statement. Hi Kirtanman, I notice that quick shift after the emphatic voice. Thanks for pointing that out. My latest view from the Adya videos is the one titled "What is enlightenment?" http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php...e=watchvideo Adya says, "...it has been liked to the natural state... it is perception without distortion..." He complains that seeking altered states "will make you do more tail chasing than you ever dreamed possible." The tone is "emphatic." His talk on "altered state of consciousness" seems rather sarcastic, and demeaning. "Enlightenment is the unaltered state of consciousness," he insists in his emphatic voice. I get a sense that he is oblivious to the value of cultivating "pure bliss consciousness" through practices. He seems to make fun of such cultivation by emphasizing that all you need to do is stop seeing through egoic consciousness. As if following his words will do the trick. I also read Yogani's commentary to Adya's non-dual view of enlightenment here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=5#19135 Yogani writes: "In AYP, we say that the neurobiology has to "catch up" with any sort of instant realization, and that takes both skill to manage and time." A teacher of enlightenment has to has to have more than just an description of what enlightenment is: a teacher needs to offer a path to getting there. I think Yogni's path is far more clear, and sensible, and without that tone of demeaning, teasing, laughing at "tail chasing." Bewell
Kirtanman	Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 10:01:18 PM quote: Originally posted by bewell Response to the Adyashanti video clip "Returning to the Absolute Source." http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php...e=watchvideo What an awesome video, Bewell; thanks for sharing it. I very much understand and honor your reaction to the video overall, including Adya's comments on belief. To me, that section of the video comes across a bit differently, possibly, because I know his style quite well (as, per the laughter of the audience, and Adya's own laughter, do many people at the satsang, as well). You'll notice his "emphatic voice" never lasts more than a few seconds, and is always followed by laughter, or a gentle smile or statement. I don't know if he does it on purpose; I think it's just the way he speaks in public (in private / smaller groups, he's a very, very quiet, almost shy person). What's really cool is to see Adya now, after some time, and just agree "Yep; that's how it is." Which is why I still do resonate with him so strongly, and recommend him so highly: He's speaking from experience, as the experiencing. The "solidification" he refers to is how it works ... it's what it feels like from the absolute source. As Adya describes, thoughts-perceptions arise, solidify and dissolve within us; that's why we pick up sutras lightly, in AYP Samyama -- we're catching the thought at its greatest natural level of power, before specificity and focus weaken and limit it. To All: None of us are as far from the Absolute as we may think; in fact, thinking is the only think that can make us feel apart from the absolute at all. Wholeheartedly, Kirtanman
bewell	Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 6:22:40 PM Response to the Adyashanti video titled "What do you really want?" http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php...e=watchvideo Based on the title alone, I am reminded of the time after my junior year of college when a young woman and I parted ways, and I was feeling very alone. I was really wondering about that question: "What do I really want?" I listened to the video and was pleasantly surprised when Adyashanti quoted from my scripture a Jesus saying, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you." It was a beautiful interpretation. Mysteriously, things are starting to order themselves, things happen that are perfect to happen. Those are Adyashanti observations, and oddly, I feel it matches what is happening in my life. There it is. That jr. year of college girlfriend is playing piano now, playing a song she played back in '82 when I was first falling in love with her. I am touched. I can die now. Bewell
bewell	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 10:30:30 PM Response to the Adyashanti video clip "Returning to the Absolute Source." http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php...e=watchvideo Tonight I listened to this clip about 10 times with audio on, and watched it two or three times with Audio off. I examined my responses to it. I first found it striking that his description of what he calls "infinite, pregnant void".... a journey from "kinda here" to really "here" rings true to my experience of awakening. It is rare to find someone who can express that. He does so with carefully chosen words and a powerful stage presence. I also noticed that he kind of sneered when he spoke of how "it is not about eliminating anything." He also seemed pretty aggressively attacking what he called "beliefs in your head" -- attachment to "solidified thought." It struck me as an attacking, intimidating form of communication, and it made me uncomfortable. I honor some traditional religious beliefs like the belief that some texts are worthy of being called "scripture" and that these texts are worth reading and retreading. I may not believe the claims of my scripture literally, I may doubt freely, but I stay in dialog with it. Even after "faith" and "hope" are transcended by spiritual return to what might be called heaven on earth, there is still a place for honoring the faith and hope of others and of one's own tradition and, for me, admitting that I too am in need of faith and hope. Bewell
bewell	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 8:51:41 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff If you can truly laugh at yourself and not get upset/angry, you can/are witnessing. The ego doesn't allow itself to be laughed at. Jeff I'm reflecting on what you said about ego not liking to laugh at itself. It reminds me of the time I laughed at my tendency to evaluate my life in terms of my ability to do good. It was sort of the ultimate laugh. Something had shifted. I was in a very blissful state... "pure bliss consciousness." And as I witnessed my tendency to evaluate my life that way, there was this spontaneous levity. For me it really helps to be out of suffering. It is more difficult to laugh at my ego tendencies when I am feeling annoyed. Be
bewell	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 8:23:14 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff ...by simply "being in the moment" and trying to notice, all of life becomes a meditation. ...if you can feel the energy flow through spinal breathing, it becomes very easy to let go. Jeff Thanks for sharing where about your practice. Be
jeff	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 4:13:23 PM Be, Disturbing past trauma is often too powerful to witness. If your house is burning down, it is difficult to stop and watch. It is easier to catch smaller/annoying things. Many people do it naturally as they get older. I am a fan of the AYP approach, but by simply "being in the moment" and trying to notice, all of life becomes a meditation. As Manigma pointed out, if you can feel the energy flow through spinal breathing, it becomes very easy to let go. You know something is out there. The hard part for most is the noise that the ego creates. IMHO there are many life steps that point the way to the witness state, things like- -being able to see something from someone elses perspective -being able to really laugh at yourself when you screw up -being able to truly forgive yourself and others If you can truly laugh at yourself and not get upset/angry, you can/are witnessing. The ego doesn't allow itself to be laughed at. Finally, I have not experienced a "master" or satang environment, so I don't really have an opinion. My experience has been more about finding my "inner guru" or "being kicked in the butt by the Holy Spirit , but I have found many writings (even Osho) helpful on my path. Peace & Love. Jeff
bewell	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 2:14:51 PM quote: Originally posted by jeff ...it also works to try to connect during the moments of strong emotion. Seeing yourself getting mad helps you realize that you are not your ego. Jeff, I understand. I'm guessing that moments of strong emotion, or trauma, or emergency (when the house is burning) are the most common times when people (who aren't into yoga) go into aware witness state. What they don't learn from that is how to cultivate witness without trauma. That is where you are saying the "master" comes in, to disturb the wound of past truama just enough to create or stimulate awareness of the witness, and thus to enable the process of letting go of old hurts. Be
Yaming	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 11:37:29 AM quote: This pranayama will quiet the nervous system, and provide a fertile ground for deep meditation. http://www.aypsite.org/41.html yes, but it is also clearly stated that it is not recomended to practice Spinal breathing without meditation. As you say it is providing a fertil ground. But without deep meditation as a follow up, you risk to plant something else there, that you might not like...
manigma	Posted - Feb 28 2011 : 03:29:07 AM quote: Originally posted by Yaming Manigma, why do you recommen d 20 min of spinal breathing and not 20 min of deep meditation? In my understanding we should do spinal breathing only with deep meditation. quote: Originally posted by Etherfish Yes Yaming, I agree. deep meditation has a calming, stabilizing effect. Most cases i have heard of instability and overload outside AYP were from too much pranayama. All practices should be based upon meditation. This pranayama will quiet the nervous system, and provide a fertile ground for deep meditation. http://www.aypsite.org/41.html Spinal Breathing is a very active/dynamic form of pranayama. I somehow feel this would work great for makemerry. Sometimes the witness consciousness needs a good shakeup!
Kirtanman	Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 10:00:34 PM Hi Makemerry, Welcome to the AYP Forum. It sounds like you've had a rough time in many ways overall, and there are many people here who've found AYP quite helpful in healing from major personal issues of various types. I started this thread on Adyashanti (over four years ago, I was surprised to see, when I just checked! ) ... and I've spent quite a bit of time with him over the last decade, though much less in the last four years or so, due to moving from the Bay Area, where Adya primarily teaches. I also know a few people who know him quite well, and who volunteer at his office, etc. (as I used to do, as well). All of that is "preface" to saying: the Adyashanti I know is a very nice, even-keel, caring person. That's not said to dispute your experience in any way -- your experience was your experience, of course. This post is offered more in the spirit of "additional information for what it's worth", is all. If someone said, "Well, I attended a satsang with Adyashanti and he seems okay." .... that wouldn't say much, since you did the same. I've attended literally hundreds of satsangs and intensives with Adya; I've had "hanging out in the parking lot after satsang" chats with him ("way back when" ... 2004ish); I've talked at length on quite a few occasions with his wife Annie (now Mukti), too. And again - none of this is said to dispute your experience, for several reasons - ranging from simple respect, to getting that a given person (Adyashanti, in this case) can, and will be, experienced a bit differently by each person who interacts with them, to (finally) having been close to people with PTSD, and understanding some of the dynamics (as much as someone without PTSD can, anyway). I just wanted to mention that based on a lot of exposure to Adyashanti, his wife, and many of the people in leadership positions within his organization over literally years, and sometimes attending satsang multiple times weekly ... my experience has always been that Adyashanti is a kind and caring person. Who knows why there's such a vast difference in our experiences with him? Not entirely surprising, though -- nearly every spiritual teacher has those who like them and resonate with them, and those who "anything but 'resonate'" with them. I'm not sure you'll find much negative on Adyashanti, mostly because, by any standards I know, anyway, he's not considered "hardcore" in the way that some teachers are (belittling students, actively abusing them verbally, etc. etc. ... there are several "anti-guru" sites around the Web that deal with such things; we tend to not recommend them, here, because they're filled with negative focus, which is not helpful to liberation). Anyway, I hope maybe this alternate perspective is useful. If you do want to start another discussion, please feel free (presuming you meant here, at the AYP Forum) ... though I would echo what Bewell said: There's a fairly clear line between describing one's experience, and actively "bashing" the given teacher, and we just ask that you stay on the "experience" side of that line. The entire reason for this rule is that is just helps keep any related conversation useful and productive, as opposed to turning into a "flame-fest" between those who like a given teacher, and those who don't. Plus, we're a very positive-minded group overall, and any argumentative discussion takes away from the positive "vibe" we're committed to, here. And please know: everything you've posted so far has been 100% fine ... I'm just adding my "2 Cents" to what Bewell said, regarding guru bashing, since you mentioned the intention of starting a topic meant to discuss Adyashanti in a critical manner. And again, that, in and of itself is fine, and even welcome (we'd tell you if it wasn't), as long as it is intended to be a two-way conversation regarding your sense of criticism about Adyashanti. Again, welcome to the AYP Forum. Wholeheartedly, Kirtanman PS- For What It's Worth, if I had to name the two spiritual teachers who've been most helpful in my own journey, they would be Yogani and Adyashanti.
jeff	Posted - Feb 27 2011 : 7:30:27 PM Be, Yes, by watcher I meant the same thing as witness.AVP Meditation is one path, but it also works to try to connect during the moments of strong emotion. Seeing yourself getting mad helps you realize that you are not your ego. Will send you a PM to answer the rest of your questions. Peace & Love.